Stress is basically a condition in which we carry out our pre-wired response to “painful” stimuli — the fight or flight syndrome. This is all well and good if the stimuli, seen as “bad”, is fought and removed but what if the world has changed so we if we don’t have to fight bears, other tribes, or face cold Winters anymore?
Modern stress is most often chronic. We carry @ many stressful worries and problems we have yet to resolve, some of which we are putting off indefinitely causing a built-up of the hormone Cortisol. Cortisol is beneficial in some circumstances but in others can lead to rises in blood pressure and heart rate, constriction of arteries, increased levels of insulin and blood sugars, and the lesser known interferences with our autoimmune system causing one part of our body to attack and sometimes destroy another HEALTHY part, e.g. Blood cells, covering of nerves, and a whole array of other tissues causing more “diseases” in once normal tissue. CIDP, AIDP, et.al.
More on the autoimmune aspects of stress when I return ( better informed after I research more since I am not an expert on stress so feel free to add or correct so we can have a Wiki-like Stress discussion.
Geeps
Thanks Geeps. Good luck with the infusion. I am looking forward to more.
I came across this article which was helpful too.
I know this is a little off track but I am wondering if this is why prednisone, cortisol, work in the short term? Because it stops the immune system response temporarily? Does the second stage cause a need to deal with the bodies stress from the cortisol itself? Is there a set of circumstances unique to those on prednisone, especially steroid induced cushings and stress?
For me, part of dealing with stress is to recognize there is nothing I can really do, but wait. And maybe plan a little for the best, the worst, and in between.
Mostly, I try to keep busy. Distracting myself from spending huge amounts of time worrying and wondering what shall need to be dealt with!!
Sometimes it's working on a project that requires much focus, while other times I spend time with someone, helping them and bringing us both some joy/satisfaction by ignoring my wants while helping that someone else in accomplishing his/her goals or at least providing her a distraction.
No sense buying/borrowing trouble. Wait until you see the next challenge and then figure how best to take it on than worrying about all the 'what ifs'!!
yes - stress is good, fun even... but chronic stress tips the serotonin scale the wrong way. Daily exercise resets the body chemistry. I walked 2 miles in hurricane weather today... a bit stressful, but kinda fun— got soaked!
"Stress physiology is organized around 2 systems: the sympathetic adrenomedullary system and the hypothalamic pituitary-adrenocortical system. Both of these systems are regulated in the brain and are susceptible to external stressors. Mechanisms by which stress can affect the immune system are under study including cholinergic excess, adrenergic deficiency, oxidative stress, and glucocorticoid resistance. " That's a quote from a Medscape article. If you made it all the way through you know by now that stress does effect the immune system but is not fully understood so we may be spinning our wheels going that scientific direction but rather turning our attention toward eliminating stress or decreasing our stress in any way we can. AS OTHERS HAVE RIGHTLY POINTED OUT BELOW, unnecessary worrying, regretting the past, and worrying about the future are not only pointless since we can't change what has or will happen, but also are damageing to our bodies over time, some changes are even irreversible.
What are some ways we can reduce our stress levels? Stay in the moment, it's the only thing we can control. Meditation of various sorts are successful in teaching us how to do that. Exercise is beneficial, even if it has to be minimal. How about Yoga and others? What do you do to reduce tour stress?
Thanks for drilling down into the Lands of Medscape. The more a CIDPer knows about the body systems, the better able we are in describing the symptoms and pains of this disease; a disease little known by most physicians and insurers, who sometimes reside in myopic perceptions and opaque cubicles. As a performing musician, composer and writer (long tragic action novels) I often dredged up emotional pain and stress to make my art bubble up from very unpleasant memories and mental hiding places.
From the old days of a 10-12 hour work routine, when writing, I learned to take breaks every 45 minutes; to walk one mile and swing my arms; get electrolytes in my body and try to focus my eyes on distant horizons (usually the ocean in the far distance).
Worrying about the future... well, with 7 billion+ people on this planet, we should all worry. I'm pretty sure the Zombie Apocalypse is coming and they are backed financially by Big Pharma!
Thanks for the deeper perception and poetic turn in an otherwise depressive and worn landscape. I really like your perception regarding the walking, looking, swinging, and focusing. Are you seeing what you look at? Can you smell the ocean or is it too far away? I keep trying to live in the moment but so many things distract, mostly things and actions that are piddly in nature in retrospect.
My only thought about Pharma is that they're feeding these meds to their own kids and wives. What kind of people are they?
Worrying about the future only produces more stress. Better to take the smallest step like recycling to make things better. It's like our pain, it's going to be there anyway so we might as well embrace it and continue to live our lives lest we stop to dwell on it. Then it can overwhelm us.
estaban said:
Thanks for drilling down into the Lands of Medscape. The more a CIDPer knows about the body systems, the better able we are in describing the symptoms and pains of this disease; a disease little known by most physicians and insurers, who sometimes reside in myopic perceptions and opaque cubicles. As a performing musician, composer and writer (long tragic action novels) I often dredged up emotional pain and stress to make my art bubble up from very unpleasant memories and mental hiding places.
From the old days of a 10-12 hour work routine, when writing, I learned to take breaks every 45 minutes; to walk one mile and swing my arms; get electrolytes in my body and try to focus my eyes on distant horizons (usually the ocean in the far distance).
Worrying about the future... well, with 7 billion+ people on this planet, we should all worry. I'm pretty sure the Zombie Apocalypse is coming and they are backed financially by Big Pharma!
That's a good capsule of the process. Thanks!
mabes said:
Thanks Geeps. Good luck with the infusion. I am looking forward to more.
I came across this article which was helpful too.
http://dujs.dartmouth.edu/fall-2010/the-physiology-of-stress-cortis...
I know this is a little off track but I am wondering if this is why prednisone, cortisol, work in the short term? Because it stops the immune system response temporarily? Does the second stage cause a need to deal with the bodies stress from the cortisol itself? Is there a set of circumstances unique to those on prednisone, especially steroid induced cushings and stress?
This is a little late but prednisone is one of the most potent anti-inflammatory drugs in our medical arsenal along with related derivatives. There are also synthetic drugs that have similar properties. It attacks the inflammatory response of the body to the clash of antigen/antibody reaction, which many think is causing the demyelination process of our nerves that leads to pain, numbness, and motor weakness. Like most things the body not only gets used to it , but also, reacts to it's not-so-beneficial properties: stomach ulceration, increased blood sugar, re-activation of infections especially TB, and others.
mabes said:
Thanks Geeps. Good luck with the infusion. I am looking forward to more.
I came across this article which was helpful too.
http://dujs.dartmouth.edu/fall-2010/the-physiology-of-stress-cortis...
I know this is a little off track but I am wondering if this is why prednisone, cortisol, work in the short term? Because it stops the immune system response temporarily? Does the second stage cause a need to deal with the bodies stress from the cortisol itself? Is there a set of circumstances unique to those on prednisone, especially steroid induced cushings and stress?
Well when I stress over what I can’t change it is definitely tougher. When I isolate myself from stressors I do better . I love the night people are asleep. I wake up late for there is nothing to rush to accomplish. I savor quiet time and happy people as they are rare. Know one wants to hear of my pain or wait for me to shuffle to there destination. So my values have been honed. I love my wife with every smile and compliment to feed off of her smiles.
I love the part @ feeding off your "wife's smiles and compliments" Here's a little something that I try to use. Desiderata is not too bad either. See below.Thanks for sharing.
"A person should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day In order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul."
GOETHE
Desiderata Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Be yourself. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, © Max Ehrmann 1927 |
This is what Julie and I wish for you
Robert Martin said:
Well when I stress over what I can't change it is definitely tougher. When I isolate myself from stressors I do better . I love the night people are asleep. I wake up late for there is nothing to rush to accomplish. I savor quiet time and happy people as they are rare. Know one wants to hear of my pain or wait for me to shuffle to there destination. So my values have been honed. I love my wife with every smile and compliment to feed off of her smiles.
Thanks again. I can't help thinking the post stress I am feeling is prednisone related, even though I have been off 2 years now. The cause feels internal and doesn't respond the same way as external stress. I have gotten pretty good at controlling external stress.
I am in Wisconsin. The fall skyline is breathtaking, and bigger than any problems I may have. When I drive through the vast open land here, there's no pain or worries. When I was first diagnosed, we didn't know how to cope with the stress caused from this illness. My husband would pack a day bag and we'd take off for an adventure. We usually found ourselves at a coastline or forest. It really got us through those first months.
Geepster said:
This is a little late but prednisone is one of the most potent anti-inflammatory drugs in our medical arsenal along with related derivatives. There are also synthetic drugs that have similar properties. It attacks the inflammatory response of the body to the clash of antigen/antibody reaction, which many think is causing the demyelination process of our nerves that leads to pain, numbness, and motor weakness. Like most things the body not only gets used to it , but also, reacts to it's not-so-beneficial properties: stomach ulceration, increased blood sugar, re-activation of infections especially TB, and others.
mabes said:Thanks Geeps. Good luck with the infusion. I am looking forward to more.
I came across this article which was helpful too.
http://dujs.dartmouth.edu/fall-2010/the-physiology-of-stress-cortis...
I know this is a little off track but I am wondering if this is why prednisone, cortisol, work in the short term? Because it stops the immune system response temporarily? Does the second stage cause a need to deal with the bodies stress from the cortisol itself? Is there a set of circumstances unique to those on prednisone, especially steroid induced cushings and stress?
The vastness of the outdoors does have a way of putting our temporary problems in perspective! To your other point about the prednisone related? "internal" stress that you feel: that anxious feeling has been associated with ig therapy itself and is well managed with small and intermittent doses of lorazepine. That said, large prolonged doses of any steroids can suppress your adrenal glands and secondarily your pituitary leading to all kinds of problems when the meds are stopped, especially suddenly because you do not produce normal amounts of your own cortisols needed for everyday functions because they wern't needed when you got the prednisone. Cortisol levels and other studies by a an Endocrinologist may help determine the causes exactly. I'd try the lorazepine first from your GP. See what he/she says.
Tried lorazepine, but then went to Paxil. Soon, I'll drop that and see if I turn into Mr. Hyde again. If not a seething and scheming Mr. Hyde, I'll rely on exercise, hugs and a positive attitude. I also find that writing zombie fiction gets the no-nos, nay-nays and nah-nahs out.
As is reading a good book such as, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde.
BTW- did you mean lorizapam?
Hi Kiddo
Good points. ALSO: Have you ever been tested for Anti-MAG??
No I haven’t. Good idea for next neuro visit.
Loni Hart said:
Hi Kiddo
Good points. ALSO: Have you ever been tested for Anti-MAG??
I always thought that I was good with dealing with stress by pushing it way down into my soul, but all it really has done is make me ill & fatigued. I've never heard of lorazepine or do you mean lorazepam which is Ativan? I currently take diazepam (Valium) for stress, bruxism, and spasticity.
Just had a through exam by a physiatrist (for rehabilitation). I mentioned spasticity as a symptom of my muscle dysfunction, but he told me spasticity was upper neuron driven. He then tested all range-of-motion muscles for spasticity and i had no upper neuron involvement (thank all the Gods in the universe!).
So, what is our muscle cementing called? Rigidity? Numbness? Paralysis? Paresthesia? Stiffness? I have all these sensations and more, but trying to explain muscle symptoms of CIDP to neuros, physiatrist, PCPs, nurses, oncologists, urologists, etc...is at times impossible because each relapse or trough I suffer is so different in terms of muscle dysfunction presentation.
I'm thinking that if I buy a new Nissan Exterra I will be more macho driven and feral... then I'll buy an ocean canoe, fishing gear and regardless of the state of the disease, I'll force/push myself to the pain state, and then, as I explore my island, I may get over that hump of fear, of trepidation about all the negative aspects of this ()*&* !!*&!! disease! I swim miles and miles to relieve stress now, but it's getting boring. Stress relieving drugs... like a pat on the head from MOM when I was a teenager. I want more out of my final years.
Tomorrow... I''ll shred and mulch trees and palm fronds. Constant movement in one place, noisy as hell, dirty and sweaty work... but Ill walk away, when done 4 or 5 hours later, like the guy in the Brawny paper-towel commercial! And the next day, I'll fell great, or feel like I was run over by a rock-crushing tractor. LOL
Sunshine said:
I always thought that I was good with dealing with stress by pushing it way down into my soul, but all it really has done is make me ill & fatigued. I've never heard of lorazepine or do you mean lorazepam which is Ativan? I currently take diazepam (Valium) for stress, bruxism, and spasticity.
I went through the same thing with my neuro (continue to go through) when I explain my “spasms” as severe, sometimes affecting almost any of my muscles : fascial, abdominal, etc. He just looks at me like I had two heads and carries on with HIS thought process. UGGGGGGG!
I go through the same extremes trying to deal with my stress from frustrations generated by the disease itself but made worse sometimes by the medical profession itself in it’s failure to really understand all the facets of this disease that can make our lives miserable but with which we try to deal with daily by shredding the palm fronds, going to the gym to overdo it, running, or doing the opposite by medicating and just doing nothing. Where’s the middle ground? I think it’s right here on LivingwithCIDP!!! The understanding of fellow patients ( I refuse to use the words “suffers”, “victims”) is what keeps me afloat sometimes -my beacon in the night.
PS I think it’s a great idea to see a Physiatrist to get an overall, independent evaluation of the condition and some practical recommendations.
estaban said:
Just had a through exam by a physiatrist (for rehabilitation). I mentioned spasticity as a symptom of my muscle dysfunction, but he told me spasticity was upper neuron driven. He then tested all range-of-motion muscles for spasticity and i had no upper neuron involvement (thank all the Gods in the universe!).
So, what is our muscle cementing called? Rigidity? Numbness? Paralysis? Paresthesia? Stiffness? I have all these sensations and more, but trying to explain muscle symptoms of CIDP to neuros, physiatrist, PCPs, nurses, oncologists, urologists, etc…is at times impossible because each relapse or trough I suffer is so different in terms of muscle dysfunction presentation.
I’m thinking that if I buy a new Nissan Exterra I will be more macho driven and feral… then I’ll buy an ocean canoe, fishing gear and regardless of the state of the disease, I’ll force/push myself to the pain state, and then, as I explore my island, I may get over that hump of fear, of trepidation about all the negative aspects of this ()& !!*&!! disease! I swim miles and miles to relieve stress now, but it’s getting boring. Stress relieving drugs… like a pat on the head from MOM when I was a teenager. I want more out of my final years.
Tomorrow… I’'ll shred and mulch trees and palm fronds. Constant movement in one place, noisy as hell, dirty and sweaty work… but Ill walk away, when done 4 or 5 hours later, like the guy in the Brawny paper-towel commercial! And the next day, I’ll fell great, or feel like I was run over by a rock-crushing tractor. LOL
Sunshine said:I always thought that I was good with dealing with stress by pushing it way down into my soul, but all it really has done is make me ill & fatigued. I’ve never heard of lorazepine or do you mean lorazepam which is Ativan? I currently take diazepam (Valium) for stress, bruxism, and spasticity.
Thanks for that reply, Greepster!
Egad, it's flu season! Yesterday I got the dreaded flu shot and today it shreds me ... the palm fronds must wait.
The flu shot, according to my neuro's decision about getting it... well, I think he just flipped a coin when we spoke on the phone. He is all textbook and only one of three nervous neuros practicing on this island... pathetic!. My PCP refused to administer a flu shot over malpractice concerns ( I think), so I went to a CVC pharmacy.
Did I get CIDP from a flu shot in 1999 or 2010 or ? Who knows, who will ever know? My neuro is good, but not versed in this disease... yet.
Geepster said:
I went through the same thing with my neuro (continue to go through) when I explain my "spasms" as severe, sometimes affecting almost any of my muscles : fascial, abdominal, etc. He just looks at me like I had two heads and carries on with HIS thought process. UGGGGGGG!
I go through the same extremes trying to deal with my stress from frustrations generated by the disease itself but made worse sometimes by the medical profession itself in it's failure to really understand all the facets of this disease that can make our lives miserable but with which we try to deal with daily by shredding the palm fronds, going to the gym to overdo it, running, or doing the opposite by medicating and just doing nothing. Where's the middle ground? I think it's right here on LivingwithCIDP!!!! The understanding of fellow patients ( I refuse to use the words "suffers", "victims") is what keeps me afloat sometimes -my beacon in the night.
PS I think it's a great idea to see a Physiatrist to get an overall, independent evaluation of the condition and some practical recommendations.
estaban said:Just had a through exam by a physiatrist (for rehabilitation). I mentioned spasticity as a symptom of my muscle dysfunction, but he told me spasticity was upper neuron driven. He then tested all range-of-motion muscles for spasticity and i had no upper neuron involvement (thank all the Gods in the universe!).
So, what is our muscle cementing called? Rigidity? Numbness? Paralysis? Paresthesia? Stiffness? I have all these sensations and more, but trying to explain muscle symptoms of CIDP to neuros, physiatrist, PCPs, nurses, oncologists, urologists, etc...is at times impossible because each relapse or trough I suffer is so different in terms of muscle dysfunction presentation.
I'm thinking that if I buy a new Nissan Exterra I will be more macho driven and feral... then I'll buy an ocean canoe, fishing gear and regardless of the state of the disease, I'll force/push myself to the pain state, and then, as I explore my island, I may get over that hump of fear, of trepidation about all the negative aspects of this ()*&* !!*&!! disease! I swim miles and miles to relieve stress now, but it's getting boring. Stress relieving drugs... like a pat on the head from MOM when I was a teenager. I want more out of my final years.
Tomorrow... I''ll shred and mulch trees and palm fronds. Constant movement in one place, noisy as hell, dirty and sweaty work... but Ill walk away, when done 4 or 5 hours later, like the guy in the Brawny paper-towel commercial! And the next day, I'll fell great, or feel like I was run over by a rock-crushing tractor. LOL
Sunshine said:I always thought that I was good with dealing with stress by pushing it way down into my soul, but all it really has done is make me ill & fatigued. I've never heard of lorazepine or do you mean lorazepam which is Ativan? I currently take diazepam (Valium) for stress, bruxism, and spasticity.